Sorry for the long, long delay in posting this. It's been a busy year with family health issues and becoming a father for the second time!
A brief update on what I've been doing with regards to German: I have continued with my weekly German chats, kept up (somewhat infrequently) with my German-speaking pen-pals and have continued to read German books and listen to podcasts on a wide variety of topics. What I haven't done, pretty much since passing my exam, is any concentrated German study. I'll discuss my plans for next year in a post soon! I read "Das Parfüm" which is a great book. My understanding was lower than with "Der Beobachter" because the vocabulary is just much larger and I wanted to enjoy it without stopping to look up words. I did add some words along the way to my Anki list, but I tried not to worry too much about it. I understood the story more than 99% of the time, so my enjoyment was undiminished by whatever words I couldn't figure out on my own. The second book which I just started recently is called "Das Todeskreuz." I picked it up while I was on holidays at a bookswap. I'm finding it to be very well written and easy to read. It's also set in my former hometown (well, for six months at least!) of Frankfurt which is a nice bonus. It's nice to be able to pick up a book by a native author and just to be able enjoy without having to strain!
Anyway, since I achieved my goal in April last year of passing the Goethe-Zertifikat-B2 exam, I want to reflect back on what I needed to do to get here, partially for my own benefit in planning for the future, but mainly to hopefully give other people heading towards a similar goal some useful pointers.
Let me start by looking back at the planning I did way back at the start. I wrote the following plan on the 21st of November, 2010:
***
German Learning Plan - 21/11/2010
Goal: To reach B2 and pass either Goethe B2 or ZDfB
Resources:
- Assimil Deutsch Ohne Mühe(German with Ease)
- http://www.dw-world.de/dw/0,,2547,00.html
- Goethe Institut
Rough Plan:
- Complete Assimil in 5 months (1 month review, 4 months to complete and review all lessons in Phase 2)
- Watch all Jojo episodes and follow them without subtitles
- Listen to the news on DW once or twice a week. This includes translating the text in Google Translator Toolkit to build up news specific vocabulary. Use the original and translations to know what is being said. Use the original + audio (both tempos) to get used to hearing German and understanding it - Assimil style.
- Use the exam preparation material supplied by the Goethe Institut. This will give an idea of what is required to pass the exams.
- Keep up with German penpals. Make new ones.
- Find opportunities to speak with Germans. Don’t worry about mistakes or not knowing much. Use the opportunities. In person might be best.
- Perhaps use the Goethe Fernunterricht courses. This is the beginner’s course.
- Listen to German songs, watch German movies.
***
How did I do on this list? I would say I did most of it in general. I definitely did NOT complete the Assimil course in 5 months! I didn't even end up doing all of the active phase (where you go back to the start and redo the lessons, this time trying to translate from English into German). Basically, I just found the active phase took too much time for me to do at the same time as doing more active lessons for the time I had available. And maybe I didn't feel the same level of benefit as from the passive phase (which, if you insist on shadowing all the speakers in every dialogue until you do each one without tripping up anywhere is actually quite far from passive :-) ).
I listened to German podcasts most days, starting mainly with the news (for which I did my own translations with the help of Google Translate initially and put them into a side-by-side parallel translation format) which helped enormously in improving my listening speed and my confidence. I eventually branched out into a bunch of different types of podcasts. There is a really wide variety of excellent podcasts in German. In fact, listening to them made me wonder why no australian radio is able to get close to the consistently high quality, wide ranging reporting that I found so easily in German radio (for example, dradio and SWR2, just to name two).
I did listen to German songs and watch movies without subtitles. This is a kind of passive confidence building exercise that I don't think had many direct benefits in terms of progress, but still, it's important to enjoy the fruits of your labours sometime! During 2012 I watched Das Parfüm, Das Boot, Der Untergang (aka Downfall with that famous scene!) and Nirgendwo in Afrika to name a few. I most definitely did not end up watching the whole "Jojo sucht das Glück" series. Basically, because it was awful :-) I still want to be able to understand more of the dialogue - that Mark guy, especially. He's a real mumbler! But I figured that if I can understand more of the dialogue from high-quality feature films, why struggle with bad acting, boring scripts, muffled sound and scruffy mumblers!
The Most Important Resources
By far and away the most important things I did were:(a) Assimil's German with Ease, for sure. If you're a beginner, start with Assimil. I can't really comment on the usefulness of the advanced courses because I didn't get very far through my own for reasons I mention above, but the ones that claim to get you up to B2 (which I think they almost do in terms of fundamentals, but you'll need to do other work to pass the exam) are brilliant to get started. Check out the reviews on Amazon though because I've heard that some of the courses are not so good. Oh, and get used to minor typos. "New German With Ease" was full of them, but they didn't cause me any trouble.
(b) I made my own Anki list (as well as using one other big list). I added every single word I didn't recognise in "Lesetraining B2" to it and also many others that I found just reading the newspaper, listening to the radio, etc. IMPORTANT: You should know enough of the grammar to be able to look up the word and write down its basic form plus enough other information to cover most of the basic irregularities which can occur. Don't bother doing this for regular forms, of course, and don't put in every irregular form because that might be a lot! And, perhaps even more important: Include the "argument structure". What do I mean by this? See the example below.
(c) meeting up with native speakers. I managed to organise a regular weekly meeting at my work of just half an hour, and I also made a pair of awesome Austrian friends through the Couchsurfing website. I just got really lucky there because they both thought it was cool that someone in Australia would be bothering to learn German!
(d) I did as much exam prep material as I could squeeze in time for. When I was a long way out from the exam I did some B1 level material and then had a go at B2 level which showed up my weaknesses for the exam format. This lead me to buy "Lesetraining B2" which I've mentioned in many previous posts, and I did this whole book before the exam. Doing this work also really improved my B2 level vocab.
(d) only applies if you're actually doing the exam - although I think that the reading practice with comprehension exercises from "Lesetraining B2" really helped a lot just with my general reading because I added a lot of words into my Anki list at this stage. Also, it's nice to read books, but sometimes it's important to test your comprehension to really focus your mind on getting a clear understanding of what the text is saying. This helped push me past that phase of fuzzy, general understanding to having a really precise understanding of much more of what I read.
For conversation practice, Skype would be fine, but I never used it for language exchange in German. I will use it in the future to keep in touch with my good friends from Austria who've headed home now.
Argument Structure
Here are some examples of what I mean by "argument structure" for Anki cards."an einer Veranstaltung teilnehmen, bei/in ... mitmachen, sich an ... beteiligen"
=
"to take part in an event, to participate"
"aus folgendem Grund"
=
"for the following reason"
"im Büro"
=
"at the office"
"sich die Nase putzen"
=
"to blow one's nose"
"auf etwas warten"
=
"to wait for something"
As you can see, the idea is mainly for verbs, but it doesn't only apply to them. When I tried to learn languages when I was younger I would try to memorise all the prepositions and what they "mean" in English, and then try to apply what I had memorised following the rules in English. For anything other than the really basic examples that your beginners' textbook will give you, this will fail most of the time. This is one major reason why I don't believe it's useful to download wordlists like "the most frequent 2000 words" to start with in learning a language because the most common words are this little words that carry a lot of functions and don't have a one-to-one correspondence with English words. Even the really basic words like "der, die, das" = "the", because there will be times when English uses them where German doesn't and vice-versa. It's nice to know basically what they mean, but you will see them so often that there's no real point in making a special effort to memorise them. Just look at the phrase above for "to blow one's nose" and you'll see what I'm talking about. The other reason against "high frequency" word lists is that many of even the top 100 words will be very low on actual "content", like all these little grammatical words. The words I want to study are the ones which carry the actual content and meaning of the phrase. I'm not sure how many people out there are going to be familiar with Information Theory, but one of the results of it as applied to natural languages is that often the less frequent words carry the most actual information in a sentence.
You might know this feeling when you're learning a language. You understand all the little grammatical words, and the forms of the verbs and all that in a sentence, but sometimes there is just one word that is the real key to understanding. Yes, sometimes you can figure the meaning (if only vaguely) from the rest of the context, so it's important not to get too hung up on it, but sometimes you will just have no real idea. Words. You can't get away from learning words. Real content words are the best of all. It's great knowing that the word "die" means "the", and that "er" means "he", and that "zurück" means back, but it doesn't help much with a sentence you'll hear all the time on the news like "Er wies die Vorwürfe zurück". "He somethings the something back" would be your translation after learning the more frequent 500 words or whatever (I'm just guessing), but it's not particularly helpful in figuring out that it actually means "He rejected the accusations". My point is not that the most frequent words aren't useful, just that you will encounter them so often that one quick initial search should cover you for these permanently. The lower frequency content words are the ones that you need to add to your Anki list.
Some Mistakes
* Not speaking early enough: http://yetanotherlanguage.blogspot.com.au/2011/05/enemy-at-home-exhibition-in-museum-of.html* Not starting with Anki early enough.
* Trying to pick up too many pre-made Anki decks.
* Trying to put every Assimil lesson into Anki (I seriously started doing this at one stage!)
* Not having good enough french to understand the more advanced nuances being expressed in "Perfectionnement Allemand".
* Spending too much time seeking out more beginner level audio when I wasn't understanding every word perfectly. Understanding takes a LOT of practice, so it's best to seek out interesting content because you will have to listen to it a lot!
* Not spending enough time with my parallel translations. After putting the effort into producing these I should have then been listening to them and reading them until I knew them cold. Each time I did actually do this I felt my understanding jump a little step up, so I really should have found the time to focus on this more.
The Big Question: How the hell do you have time?
I have a full time family, with my first daughter being born just before I started studying German in ernest in Australia. I have a full time job. And I mean a normal, proper, full time job. I don't make a living out of a self-help blog. I drive 1.5-2 hours every day to a specific location and give my whole day to an employer in exchange for a fixed income. You know, a normal, everyday, full time job. I also like to keep reasonably fit which means regular exercise with the odd bout of training for an event. I hope to make this even more frequent in the future, while still learning languages.
You might think that I had an incredibly supportive wife or something. No, we're not the Kennedys here, just a normal family. My wife expects me to do housework and look after the kids when I get home from work and on the weekends, to do house repairs and gardening on the weekends, and then spend time talking to her and watching TV with her in the evenings. Any other time on the weekends that's not taken up by family commitments (and there are plenty of these) is usually filled with an activity just of our own family. In other words, a normal, busy, everyday family. I didn't get special time off to study. In fact, on the weekend before my exam I did some big jobs in the garden which left me exhausted and with little time to study even though I really wanted to. The only "time off" I got was when I took annual leave to do the actual exam itself! And the night before the exam was almost a total write-off!
So, when does it all happen? Well, it does vary a lot, but the short answer is "whenever I can". When I go to the toilet in the morning (regular as clockwork ;-) ) my current reading material comes with me. When I drive to work I'm listening to an Assimil lesson (and shadow it) or podcasts in German (interesting material works much better than learner material, though this is only realistic after some initial study of course). And almost all of my exam preparation was done during my lunch breaks! I would just print out the exam material and the answers and go find a quiet spot to practice. For a long time my direct exam preparation was to go through the book Lesetraining B2 which I can certainly recommend as it was a great source for appropriate vocabulary and also as a way to practice the format of the reading section of the exam which started out feeling very, very weak and ended up as an area I had every confidence in. I also did some preparation at nights once the exam got closer, but not very often for the reasons listed above.
I met people to chat with at my work (it's a very multicultural place) and we still meet up once per week for our "Stammtisch". I made friends with an Austrian couple on a working holiday in Australia for a year and met up with them irregularly - mostly once a week on Thursday for probably only a total of about 15 times, though those 15 times were often more than 2 hours, and extremely helpful and fun!
I met people to chat with at my work (it's a very multicultural place) and we still meet up once per week for our "Stammtisch". I made friends with an Austrian couple on a working holiday in Australia for a year and met up with them irregularly - mostly once a week on Thursday for probably only a total of about 15 times, though those 15 times were often more than 2 hours, and extremely helpful and fun!
Things I tried that didn't really work out
There were a few things that I spent some time on which may have been useful from some other aspects, but which weren't necessary to pass the exam, or which just probably aren't very useful:
* Gathering lots of different sources of learning material, especially beginner and intermediate podcasts. This was all just a distraction and a waste of time. Assimil was my "beginner to intermediate" springboard material. Everything else needed to just be proper podcasts on topics that I enjoyed. That was by far the best way to progress past the late beginner to early intermediate stage.
* Just listening endlessly to German radio at work. The problem is that I couldn't really focus on the content while working in English (programming). I wasn't absorbing anything, I was just ignoring it. Understanding spoken German still requires concentration and it's actually very easy for me to completely zone out while listening to it and effectively hear nothing. This was especially true early on when even the noise of the traffic while driving in summer would mean that I couldn't really follow much of what was going on in my podcasts. This has improved somewhat, but I still need a relatively lower noise environment to understand German as compared to English. Trying to listen to German audio a lot also caused some tension at home which was unnecessary considering it probably didn't provide much benefit.
* Gathering lots of different sources of learning material, especially beginner and intermediate podcasts. This was all just a distraction and a waste of time. Assimil was my "beginner to intermediate" springboard material. Everything else needed to just be proper podcasts on topics that I enjoyed. That was by far the best way to progress past the late beginner to early intermediate stage.
* Just listening endlessly to German radio at work. The problem is that I couldn't really focus on the content while working in English (programming). I wasn't absorbing anything, I was just ignoring it. Understanding spoken German still requires concentration and it's actually very easy for me to completely zone out while listening to it and effectively hear nothing. This was especially true early on when even the noise of the traffic while driving in summer would mean that I couldn't really follow much of what was going on in my podcasts. This has improved somewhat, but I still need a relatively lower noise environment to understand German as compared to English. Trying to listen to German audio a lot also caused some tension at home which was unnecessary considering it probably didn't provide much benefit.
There's so much more I could write about my experiences so far, but rather than look back any more I'll focus on the future and where I can go from here. I've already started on my plans for this year which I'll discuss in my next post, along with plans for how to reach my goals.
Got plans for the new year? Tell us all in the comments!
Gday Crno
ReplyDeleteJust found your blog googling B2 exam prep and read a handful of the posts here. Thanks a lot for all the useful info, I definitely found myself nodding in agreement to a lot of your experiences.
I've gone a rather different route in terms of learning resources and general path, but after seeing your impressive exam result I'll definitely be borrowing a few of your strategies now that I'm planning on taking the exam soon - so thanks!
Cheers
Adam
Thanks for your comment and compliment. I don't mind long comments either, so if you have more to say on any particular page, feel free to post it to help the few thousand others who stumble upon these page each month. I've been so busy with work that all my plans in terms of language learning have been put on hold, but I'll probably get more active on these pages whenever I figure out how much time I'll have in 2015 and what I want to focus on. In any case, your thoughts and experiences would be really valued here, and I for one would like to hear what your general strategy is!
DeleteBest of luck with your studies und dem gemuetlichen Leben in Deutschland :-)
yea times definitely always an issue, its all about fitting in a bit of learning in all the little nooks and crannies of spare time in your day sometimes isnt it?
DeleteAnyway here's my story and how ive learned so far:
I started off doing the couchsurfing thing, I wasnt even into languages at the start but as you know most of the backpackers in oz tend to be german so this is how i first got into learning a few phrases. Mainly rude ones ;)
At some point i decided to actually try to learn on my own, so i downloaded the mindsnacks app and got on duolingo, which together gave me a very basic grounding.
I ran out of steam when i realised i still couldnt speak, until i found pimsleur. This was my major breakthrough. I did the lessons in the car to/from work (2-3hrs/day) and was confidently speaking basic phrases in no time.
This in conjunction with mindsnacks on phone, duolingo on comp, the odd couchsurfer, all my spare time was well utilised and i was probably at around A2 level i guess.
Around this time I started dating a german girl i met through couchsurfing (won her over with my smooth deutsch). We lived together in sydney 6 months and since July 2014 I've been living with her family here in germany.
Her parents english isnt great so we only speak german at home, which is what i wanted anyway. The first week I was pretty mute, but since then ive improved in leaps and bounds. Talk about immersion. I joined the local dorf fussball team, eat pork and potatoes every day, and have hardly spoken a word of english in 6 months.
Language wise I'd say my skills are excellent, but recently I realised that my vocabularly has stalled. Basically I can small talk and handle all common situations as if I were a local, follow tv shows and radio, read harry potter, but the news can still stump me simply because i dont know all the "grown up" words, which you just dont hear day to day,
After noticing this I hit the books in the last week, after 6 months of no study and just living/immersion. I breezed through a grammar book in a couple of days. All the cases and adjective endings and rules and exceptions suddenly make sense when you have enough speaking experience to relate it to. This is something Benny from fluent in 3 months said would happen, but i didnt understand it until now.
Vocab wise Anki seems the way to go. At $32 it would be the first money I spent on learning german but looks worth it.
I watched the B2 speaking prufung you posted recently and was surprised how slow and unconfident they were speaking, at least to me... but now i know that with a decent vocab boost and a few practice tests I can see myself passing the test in a few weeks time hopefully no worries.
END STORY
Well thats pretty much me. Congrats on the website numbers, few thousand per month is impressive. I spent my first few months here building a real estate website but i doubt ive had more than a few hundred hits. Maybe I should start a german blog too ;)
Brilliant! Thanks for the detailed response. I'm sure a lot of readers will find your comments very interesting and helpful. I especially note that you felt like you couldn't speak it just by doing duolingo, which many people on duolingo report after getting to a high level and finishing the skill tree for a language. And my personal experience is that their translations skills can also be quite imprecise and just generally lacking.
DeleteI equate your experience with Pimmsleur to my experience with Assimil. It seems that the major factor is that the product you use should have lots of target language audio that you are compelled to repeat. I haven't heard any Pimmsleur products, but they often get very positive reviews. Assimil products have nothing but the target language on their audio CDs, so you don't get drawn out of that language with jarring instructions in your own language. It's great to have products like these that really kickstart your speaking muscles and listening comprehension so you can start conversing with real people.
As for understanding the news, even in English the vocabulary is often very stereotyped. For instance, I learnt quite early on how to say "to cordon off" from listening to the news and looking up words I didn't know. I mean, where else to do you hear about things being "cordoned off"? Unless you work for the police, probably the news will be the only source of this word in your life. There are many others like this. People announce their retirement, Governments increase taxes, people fight battles and wars, they protest, they vote, they play football and announce the weather. The vocabulary is actually quite limited in the news, so I'm sure you'll have no trouble at all acquiring it. I made a few parallel translations of old news reports. It's a really good way to get the vocab you're looking for. It seems like a lot of work, but after only a few times of doing it and going over the same news report with the parallel translation, suddenly they all seemed much clearer to me - see my own examples here: http://yetanotherlanguage.blogspot.com.au/2013/03/tips-to-improve-german-listening-skills.html. I also recommend the book "Lesetraining B2" for vocab at just the right level for the exam - see my discussion here: http://yetanotherlanguage.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/lesetraining-b2-and-other-tips-for.html. The details of my own Anki list are here: http://yetanotherlanguage.blogspot.com.au/2013/10/my-anki-list.html and the idea behind its construction is here: http://yetanotherlanguage.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/constructing-anki-list-for-german.html. It's a shame you have to buy Anki because it's free on every imaginable platform except Apple products. Oh well... But it's a very worthy investment, in my opinion. There are problems with trying to memorise like this, and there might be much better ways sometimes, but for getting a bulk of words into your head to help get conversations going, or to focus on some specific type of vocab, it just can't be beaten :-)
Anyway, it sounds to me like you'll cruise through a B2 exam. Maybe you should consider a higher exam and just try to cram more vocab, especially from sources that are targeted for the level of the exam you go for. Just a suggestion!
Let us know how it works out for you, and best of luck!
hey mate got my results today, 73% not too shabby but not as good as yours ;)
Deleteim pretty happy with that considering my only study was one and a half practice tests and a bit of anki (I got halfway through the lower intermediate deck, and about a quarter of the way through your B2 one).
As expected listening/speaking were my strengths, and writing/reading were weaker since most of my experience is just from informal text messages haha
Anyway, it did motivate me to actually work on improving my german since i would eventually like to have C2 and be genuinely fluent in all 4 areas. I'm currently experimenting with a few different resources, will see how it goes.
Fantastic result, Adam! Well done! If you'd done a bunch more practice tests and just practised the writing component itself with your girlfriend's help you could easily do a lot better in this section. Especially at the B2 level it's a part of the test that's very amenable to practising the test format itself.
DeleteAnyway, congratulations again, and I hope you go on to the C2 exam. Feel free to drop us a line again when you do, or write a guest post for us :-)
You've reminded me that I need to make a goal for myself in language learning soon or another year will tick past with no progress :-(
Best of luck!
Hey Crno, long time no speak, you still around mate?
DeleteQuick update, I picked up my C2 in 2018, smashed the reading and listening with around 90%, but only around 70% for speaking and writing, which kinda makes sense. Other than that im still living in germany but travelling all over EMEA for work, which has led to me picking up russian and arabic ;)
Hows life?
G'day Adam!
DeleteSorry for the very late reply. I don't get notifications from the blog any more. That may have been deliberate.
Anyway, this is an amazing achievement - well done! It'd be great to see what your thoughts are on why the speaking component was harder for you (although 70% is still a great result, and an overall of 80% on the C2 is truly stellar!). I'm sure the info would be useful for other learners. Like me, for one! I had thought to push on to do C2 next year recently but I'm struggling to find the time. I don't even have as much German language contact now as I did when I was preparing for the B2 exam, which is a small spanner in the works :-)
For the written section, did you prepare something based on one of the novels, or did you do one of the two general questions in that area?
I think this was your rough timeline was:
2013 (?) Began basic German, got to A2 using apps like Duolingo and Pimmsleur.
2014 Started a relationship with a German woman and moved to Germany mid year.
March 2015 - Passed the B2 exam while still living in Germany.
2018 - Smashed the C2 exam :-)
So, roughly 2 years to B2, 3 years to C2, including living in Germany for that whole time. It's a sobering benchmark for anyone aiming at C2!
If you ever find the time to write up a description of how you got from B2 to C2 I would be very interested. I could post it here if you don't have a spot for it already.
Again, congratulations on your achievement!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHi there,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the informative blog post.
I am currently Australian, and am going through the same thing as you did, with regards to Spanish, which is by all accounts a slightly easier language to learn than German.
I am chugging through Assimil "with ease" at the moment, and plan to watch an "extremely" long telenovela, which includes structured grammar lessons, concurrently with Assimil. I have also just started using Anki, but only for the revision of the more difficult sentences I encounter in Assimil, and not to learn novel words.
I will be all fine and well doing Assimil and other activities for the next few months, and I think I am being thorough enough, as I reckon I listen to the audio at least 20-30 times per lesson, no including revision on other days, and am trying to assiduously follow the Assimil instructions.
But I am sort of stumped as to what I should do personally after Assimil- I am really not sure whether just doing an Assimil course for six months, plus some other activities, like getting some face-to-face talking experience, would get me functional enough as a speaker to then jump into an immersion environment/ function in another country. How did you end up after (mostly) completing Assimil with ease? Enough to get around in Germany?
I am having a good experience with Assimil but it seems too simple, you know, almost too good to be true. I mean an hour or more of study per day for six months and you come out at the end as a functional, but certainly speaker of a second language.
I just really hope that I am not wasting my time with this program, although I am not going to doubt the wisdom of all the experienced language learners who have given it such rave reviews.
Any advice would be appreciated.
I should say, I did some introductory work, to familiarize myself with spanish, before starting Assimil. I didn't go in as a rank novice.
ReplyDeleteHallo Pirate_steve!
ReplyDeleteAll I can say for sure is that I think you're on the right track. Make sure you're shadowing that audio until it's as close to perfect as you can make it. Take both roles of the conversation at the same time. It's tiring, but a great workout to teach your tongue how to form these novel sounds clearly so native speakers can understand you. You'll also pick up the rhythm which is very important, and get a good feel for the grammar, and train your ear. However, finishing that book won't be the end of the road. It's the beginning of your "intermediate" path. You will, however, be able to start having decent conversations way before you finish the book. If you can find the right conversation partner/s then I highly recommend doing that. Keep us posted on your progress!
Just typed a long response out, but ran into a browser issue and lost the text. Very frustrating!
ReplyDeleteBut thanks for the reply. I personally love the Assimil approach, and I have read a lot about Alexander Arguelles approach to language learning, oincluing his shadowing technique.
I should say that from my previously unsuccessful experiences using other methods of learning a language (such as duolingo and etc) I agree with him that using bilingual texts with recordings in the target language is by far the best method I have encountered, and is the first I will turn to, should I to ever try to learn another language after. If there was a quicker way of getting a base vocabulary of around 2000 words in a language than Assimil/Linguaphone, I would like to hear of it.
My original plan was to jump straight into FSI Basic after finishing Assimil, and I will certainly get a book focusing explicitly on grammar (such as you did with lesetraining B2, apparently.) But I am beginning to think that extensive audio-lingual pattern drills are probably not going to be the best tack for me to take, although I most likely will use them at some point in the future. I also have 15 hours worth of experience with Pimsleur, which uses a similar approach but found it to be slow and a tad boring, but not arduous.
I think that using the approach you seemed to take- using comprehensible input from native materials such as podcasts, audiobooks and TV/Movies- the "listening-reading" method in other words, is probably going to be the best way forward for me, and one that many other polyglots seem to have success with.
I will certainly get a language partner/tutor as well. The main aim of learning a foreign language is to be able to talk to people.
DeleteAll sounds great, Pirate Steve. Just a small correction - Lesetraining B2 is a book for practising the reading component of the B2 exam. It has no grammar per se. That's because the B2 exam was the goal I used to push me harder. For grammar I read bits and pieces of "Modern German Grammar: A Practical Guide". I see there's a Spanish equivalent (http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Spanish-Grammar-Practical-Grammars/dp/0415273048) which, if anything like the German version, I would highly recommend for when you feel like you want some more specific grammar detail and polish. I wouldn't worry about accumulating extra material at this stage too much. Get through Assimil, and start translating (with Google Translate's help) small articles of interest, preferably with audio, and find some people to speak with regularly. That's more than enough to keep you going :-) Once you've finished Assimil, double down on learning words, probably by creating your own Anki list.
DeleteGood luck!
*I used the word polyglot. I meant language learners. I don;t have any real desire, or enough passion for languages, to become a polyglot.
ReplyDeletehello. i am just wondering. how can one pass the b2 exam? is it the same as in b1 that you can pass the exam if you have b1 in speaking and b1 either in listening/reading or writing part? thanks.
ReplyDeleteHello Petty! Thanks for your comment. This blog hasn't been updated for a while (hope to do that soon!) but when I was doing it regularly it was because I was preparing for the B2 exam, so it pretty much documents most of what I did. This post here is largely an answer to your question. As for the specifics of the marking scheme, these can be found on any website that details the test. From what I recall, you need to pass all the 4 sub-parts. This is different to the French DELF B2 exam, I believe. Best of luck with your studies!
ReplyDeleteHi.. I just cleared the B1 exam. How long do you think it would take before I give the B2 one? 6 months? If I plan on doing self study? Were you enrolled in a course or did you study on your own? How long did you prepare for? Did you use any preparation book for Schreiben? For sprechen i found a native speaker on italki we discuss the various topics from Deutsche welle website once or twice a week.. so i hope that will help me get better with speaking. For reading.. I'm considering getting that book you've recommended. Hören I'd just listen to Radio as much as possible.. Please let me know how you prepared for schreiben. Sorry I asked too many questions :(
ReplyDeleteCongratulations!
DeleteIt might be a bit of a rambling website, but there are lots of answers to your questions if you read around. To save you time, my short answers are:
1) I had some German lessons as a teenager and learnt almost nothing, then once a week while I was living in Germany for 6 months, but I honestly didn't learn much there. I mostly learnt German using the Assimil course and by making German speaking friends. I spoke with some Austrian friends both at work and outside it at least once a week for a while there. One of my friends in particular had a real interest in helping me learn and pushing me. So, I didn't really do courses, but it wasn't all alone, either :-)
I would suggest trying to just discuss things that interest you and your native speaker friend. Talking about the DW website might get somewhat, mmm, dull :-)
I have only sat one language exam ever, and that was the B2 exam, but from what I've seen/read from other people, it seems that the big jump is from B1 to B2. Having said that, I think that vocabulary is the biggest component of this jump - so read books and add the words to your Anki list. And if you don't already have Anki, GO GET IT NOW! It was absolutely key to me for learning extra vocab. There are all sorts of problems with just learning words, etc, but it's better to have a slightly weird understanding of a few words then to have absolutely no idea what they mean!
Check these links:
http://yetanotherlanguage.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/constructing-anki-list-for-german.html
http://yetanotherlanguage.blogspot.com.au/2013/10/my-anki-list.html
http://yetanotherlanguage.blogspot.com.au/2014/12/finally-good-spoken-examples-for-goethe.html
If you can put in the time (try to do 30 mins of something with focus every day) and keep up with Anki , I think 6 months should be fine. I don't know what your workload is like though, and I never sat the B1 so I don't know how long it even took me to get to move between those levels.
Good luck with it, and let us know how you get on!
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DeleteHi,
DeleteJust to let you know.. I cleared the B2 with an overall score of 80%. I am a bit disappointed because I was hoping to get close to 90% with how much effort I put in. The listening section really brought down my overall score. :(
These were my scores:
Lesen: 20/25
Schreiben: 20/25
Hören: 16/25
Sprechen: 25/25
My speaking really improved because of my sessions with few native speakers / tutors via italki.
I know listening is really tough in any level of the goethe exams. Any tips on how I can improve my listening skills? Do you have a post on how to work towards getting to the C1 level in German? I would like to give the exam end of this year if possible. What are you upto these days? How are your language goals progressing?
Sorry for the long delay in replying!
DeleteYour score is amazing and you should be rightly proud. Well done! I'm especially impressed by your speaking mark as well. Flawless!
I can imagine how the listening section can go awry under test conditions. You only get 2 chances to hear the audio and answer all the questions. My listening ability was grounded in the Assimil course + conversations with friends + listening to podcasts (Germany produces some of the best publically funded science journalism I know of) and then, to prepare for the exam, I went through every practice exam I could get my hands on under full exam conditions (self-imposed) as much as possible. I often didn't have time to do it all in one chunk.
I personally haven't gone on to do any more German exams. I had in mind to prepare for the C2 exam, but I lost focus by reviving my studies in Latin and Chinese (sequentially this time, instead of at the same time).
Whatever prep I have done (and will do again in the future) is heavily influenced by this guy's advice: https://puroh.it/learning-german-a1-to-c2/. Worth reading.